Ideologically Impure
You know, I generally try to stay out of internet kerfuffles, but this time I simply cannot resist.
I’ve been active in online fat acceptance circles off and on over the last five years. I cut my teeth at Big Fat Blog and have been mostly delighted at the recent explosion of fat acceptance blogs. I’m also an avid reader of Fatshionista on LiveJournal. It’s been wonderful and awful in a lot of ways.
Wonderful because I think having spaces to discuss the very real issues surrounding being fat in a society that actively pathologizes fat bodies is a really, really good thing. Having spaces where dieting is not privileged is also good.
Awful because I am generally one of the fattest people in these communities and I feel pretty consistently marginalized because of that. Even in a movement that’s supposed to accept me, I feel vaguely on the outside. It’s not a lot of fun to read post after post on Fatshionista about a cute new clothing line that goes all the way up to size 22 or 24–that’s really nice, how about you come talk to me when they go up to size 32? Or about how their “numbers” are good, so they’re healthy. Or, or, or. None of the arguments ever seem to include me.
And that’s one of the elephants in the room of fat acceptance. It’s okay to be fat, but not too fat. If you’re really fat, you’ll be grudgingly accepted, but you’ll be made aware of the fact that really, your body’s not acceptable to them, either. If you’re bigger than size 26 or heavier than 300 pounds, you’re off in no-man’s land. There’s lip service paid to being accepting of all fat people, but I’m here to say that I’m not really feeling the love.
What prompted this post is the fact that Hanne Blank has started a new blog about her new project: becoming reduced fat. And lo, the tut-tutting has begun. (Note: I have a fairly strict no-comment-reading policy on most blogs; I took a peek at the comments on the two posts I linked to and decided that I didn’t really need to read any more virtual finger-wagging, and shame on you, Paul for calling Hanne a “situation”–she’s a person, not a situation.) Hanne’s intelligent, articulate, and almost completely made of win so when she says that she’s thought things through and has determined that losing a bit of weight is the best thing for her, I fucking believe her. Because I trust her to know what’s best for her. Why doesn’t anyone else?
And you know, I absolutely refuse to believe that I am the only fat person who has said to themselves, “Gee, Self, I need to take better care of my body. How about I re-evaluate what sorts of food I’m eating and I should probably look into starting an exercise program. And gosh, maybe by doing those things I’ll lose a bit of weight too, which would be good because I’m really not feeling so hot at the size I am right now, but I’m not going to get all weird about it.”
But the party line in size acceptance is that you can’t love yourself and wish there was a bit less of you, even if less of you meant that your quality of life is better (where better gets to be defined by the person living the life in question). The party line is that if you do lose weight, you need to be apologetic about it and explain that it was accidental, that it just happened. And losing weight via illness is okay, too, because that was out of your control, too. And it’s okay to talk about how you’re going to start working out because you just love to exercise and you really love your veggies and tofu, but you also have to be very clear that you’re not doing it to lose weight. Because that’s just a no-no.
And I’m tired of this doublespeak. For me, I am not happy or comfortable at the weight I am and I haven’t been for some time. I’m having some physical difficulties that are worrisome (I’m going to the doctor in a couple of weeks since I finally have health insurance) and I’m pretty sure that they’re being exacerbated by my weight. My mother dropped dead at 47 from a heart attack. I’d prefer that not happen to me and since cardiovascular disease runs on both sides of my family, I need to start taking better care of my body. And that means forcing myself to exercise (which I’m doing a terrible job at so far) and refraining from eating so much crappy food (limited success on that front). And you bet your damn bippy that if I manage to lose some weight–which is by no means guaranteed, but I would like to stop this gaining 10 pounds every year bullshit, otherwise I’m going to weigh 500 pounds when I’m 50 and I’d really rather not–I’m going to be happy about it. I’m not going to apologize and I’m not going to pretend it was an accident–but I’m also not going to count calories and obsessively weigh myself because that way lies madness. And maybe I don’t lose weight, and that’s fine, too. Either way, my health will be better.
The last five years have been incredibly stressful for me: I was fired from a job because I was fat, I moved across the country, I got involved in a complicated and at-times very difficult relationship, I was broke for several years, my now-husband moved in with me and we started planning a wedding, and through it all, my job has become more high-pressure and stressful. It’s taken a toll on my health and I need to figure out what I have to do to mitigate the damage. I only get the one body and it has become imperative that I spend some time working on it and doing what I can to be good to myself.
And if that means I’m not accepting my fat and am, therefore, not ideologically pure enough to be part of your movement, then so be it. I’ll be my own movement.
I wish you HAD read a bit more of the comments - as the discussion continues it is emphasized time and again that it isn’t about making value judgments of people who choose to diet. It’s about the way intentionally seeking to lose weight and promoting a fat accepting attitude have two very different goals. And no one, absolutely no one, has claimed that fat activists have never felt a desire to be thinner. In our society, that is pretty much completely unavoidable.
The conversation is about whether or not those two contradictory goals can exist within one movement and, honestly, I don’t think they can. I think people can reconcile the two for themselves as individuals because each individual is in the best place to make that decision for themselves - body autonomy goes both ways, after all.
Intentional weight loss rarely, rarely works and most often puts the person trying to lose the weight at a point even higher on the scale. It sounds like you really do want to focus on your health but that you can’t separate weight loss from improved health. That distinction is kind of hinge point of this whole discussion.
Doing what you can to be good to yourself is a great goal. I’m just not sure why so many people think being good to yourself has to include intentional weight loss. And I don’t know why so many people are insisting that fat activists think you can’t be happy about weight loss that comes as a side effect of something - it’s your body and if that body feels good to you, absolutely be happy about it. But the Fat Activist community isn’t required to applaud your weight loss.
Nor is anyone saying dieters can participate in the Fat Activist community - absolutely participate. But your priorities as a dieter are different from the priorities of Fat Activism as a distinct entity. That’s okay. There is no value judgment inherent in that. No group can meet all the needs of everyone. Participate and let it meet what needs it can but it’s unfair to expect it to meet the needs of the dieting community.
And, for the record, I still believe Hanne Blank is made of win.
And you even say it yourself! *grin*
I swear, even when you’re trying to do the “right†things to take care of yourself (which is such a loaded statement, “taking care of yourself†is often code for “dietingâ€), it’s not enough. It’s never enough. And it’s so damn tiring and makes me wonder why I’m even trying to improve my nutritional intake and increase the amount of exercise I’m getting (for my overall health and fitness, not to lose weight–and boy, does it stick in my craw that I have to point that out), because no one is ever going to believe me.
People ARE going to believe you. I believe you. Your readers here believe you, I am sure. The absolute stigma attached to any and all weight loss is absolutely something that needs to be discussed in the Fat Activism community. It’s separate from the anti-diet/pro-diet debate, but it’s just as important.
Also, also, also *grin* I AM someone who is over 300 pounds. I can sometimes find clothes in stores and sometimes not. And it IS frustrating to see clothes, day after day, that I cannot wear. Instead of feeling alienated because a size 14 is excited about the skirt s/he bought at Anthropologie, I speak up about the things that I find and put myself out there - because people need to see people who weigh over 300 pounds, people who can’t shop in regular OR plus size stores.
There is no such thing as an acceptable level of fat - ALL fat is acceptable. All BODIES are acceptable. 100, 200, 300, 400, 500 pounds and all points in between and beyond on both sides of the scale. But fat people who want to not be thin but just a little less fat wind up sending the message that there is a threshold for acceptable fat and that is SO not okay.
For a long time I’ve felt as if there is not a place for me within the overall fat acceptance community. It’s not like this is going to suddenly turn into the “Natalie Goes on a Diet” blog, because, really, no one wants to read about that and I am not going on a diet.
To me, dieting implies that I’m counting calories, measuring portions, and standing on a scale once a week. Trying to cut out the fast food and eating more vegetables and trying to get my ass to water aerobics twice a week and hoping that those things make me feel better and help alleviate some of the very real health problems I’m dealing with because my body simply cannot cope with the amount of fat on my frame is not dieting.
I would also like to point out that I wouldn’t go into a fat acceptance space and talk about losing weight. It’s not appropriate. But it really hurts to know that if I lose weight as a result of taking better care of me and am unapologetically happy about it, that I’m anathema to a lot of the people in the movement.
Natalie, I’m glad you want to take care of yourself. I want you to be around for a long time, because I like you a lot.
Hey, Natalie. I think this is a really terrific post, even though you’re taking me to task.
First, I think you’re absolutely right that people on the fatter end of fat get left out in the cold, and I hate that — especially on Fatshionista. The problem is, beyond lip service, I’m not sure what to do about it. I struggle all the time with trying to avoid looking like I only support extremely mobile, healthy fat people, because I talk so much about HAES. I know that can sound like I’m leaving out people who don’t or can’t practice HAES, people who don’t have “good numbers,” etc. The problem is, I’m working with two agendas here. One is spreading the word that fat people CAN be healthy. Two is spreading the word that all fat people deserve respect as human beings, period, regardless of size, health, disability, whatever.
I know point one often eclipses point two, but that’s mostly because I’m so furious about the constant “Even a little fat will kill you!” messages, I end up ranting about that constantly, assuming point two is still a given. But not everyone understands that it is, so I need to work at being more explicit about that.
Now, on to the posts in question. First, as a minor point of clarification, I wasn’t going after Hanne Blank in particular. (I haven’t even read her new blog, though The Rotund mentioned it to me as I was writing.) I wasn’t going after anyone, actually, just venting my disappointment that there is SO MUCH diet talk on fat blogs and fatshionista these days, and it really frustrates me, because these are supposed to be fat-positive communities.
I’m not saying dieters should be kicked out or marginalized, but I AM saying that especially in a place like fats, where the user info expressly forbids weight loss talk, I don’t understand why we keep having this conversation. Trying to lose weight is not fat-positive behavior; that seems self-evident to me. That doesn’t mean people who want to lose weight can’t contribute to fat-positive communities, but it does mean I think dieting talk is absolutely out of place in a politically fat-positive space.
And I think those who claim an opposition to dieting is about trying to judge or silence certain people, or not respecting their bodily autonomy, are setting up a huge straw man. The point is not that people who diet are less desirable than those who don’t. The point is that dieting is not fat positivity, period, so if one wants to talk about dieting, a fat-positive community is not a logical place to do it.
Now, having said all that, I think the changes you’re talking about making sound like HAES to me, not dieting. As for your hoping to lose weight incidentally, well… I can totally understand that, even if I think people are generally better off when they let go of that goal. I’m not above a size 26, and I don’t have any physical discomfort in my own body because of my fat. If I was or did, I might hope for weight loss, too, no matter how fat-positive I tried to be.
But the inescapable point for me is that deliberate weight loss almost never works, so aiming for that as a goal in itself is likely to cause disappointment and more pain. Aiming to exercise and eat better, to feel better — which may or may not cause weight loss — is a manageable goal that might actually have long-term positive results. And I’d definitely rather see people focusing on the realistic goal of feeling better than the almost always unrealistic goal of losing weight.
As I said umpteen times in my post and the comments, I’m distinguishing here between taking a political stance and condemning people’s individual decisions. My political stance is that dieting is bad news. My personal stance is that deciding to diet is individual and complicated, so I don’t judge people who do it. (I’ve done it myself, a LOT, which is about 90% of the reason I’m so against it now.) But because my blog is politically fat-positive — and so is fats, and so, ostensibly, are some other blogs I’ve been having this issue with — I don’t think there’s any place for dieting TALK there. Talking about dieting distracts from talking about — and moving toward — fat acceptance. And it’s not like there aren’t PLENTY of places on the internet to talk about dieting.
I have commenters I absolutely adore on my blog who are currently on diets and/or have had WLS, and plenty who are just beginning to struggle with the whole concept of self-acceptance as a fat person. The point is not that I don’t want them in my sandbox; it’s that my particular sandbox is about accepting fat and living with it, so diet talk is not on the agenda.
And I just really don’t understand how it can EVER be on the agenda of people trying to create fat-positive communities. Dieting is a personal decision, but it is NOT a politically neutral one within a fat-positive context; many people, however, keep trying to argue that it should be regarded as such, and I find that incredibly frustrating. That was the point of the post.
I hope all that might help you feel a little better about where I’m coming from.
Oops, you guys were too fast for me. I just wrote a monster comment — which might be in your spam filter, Natalie, cause I don’t see it here — but you’ve covered a lot of it.
I would also like to point out that I wouldn’t go into a fat acceptance space and talk about losing weight. It’s not appropriate. But it really hurts to know that if I lose weight as a result of taking better care of me and am unapologetically happy about it, that I’m anathema to a lot of the people in the movement.
Natalie, since my whole monster comment was mostly about diet talk in fat positive spaces, we’re totally on the same page.
As for your second point, I can’t say it’s not true. There might be people who will think of you as a sellout in that case. But for the record, I would absolutely not be one of them.
There are a bazillion reasons to be happy about losing weight, so whether I think they’re good reasons or not, I can completely understand that. The question for me is, would you then go to fat positive blogs and report on exactly how you lost the weight, indicate that you think everyone should try your plan, and then get all butthurt and defensive if someone said, “Hey, this is a fat-positive community; we don’t advocate dieting here”?
I don’t think you would. And that’s the crucial difference between you and the people I find frustrating.
I agree with Kate - the things you are talking about are basic principles of HAES.
And, yes, again agreeing with Kate, there ARE probably people who will think of you as a sellout if your healthy changes result in weight loss. As I said, that is a conversation that needs to happen within the Fat Activism community because it’s not okay.
You are the second person, in this conversation, to express that you think there is no place for you in the Fat Acceptance movement and, again, I am baffled by that. The place that I have is the place that I made for myself. Same goes for Kate. I made that place because I did not see other people representing my experiences, my body, my views on the politics of this kind of situation. Do you post to fatshionista? Do you talk about your experiences? If not, totally do so. There are people who would benefit from that kind of conversation no end and it would increase the visibility of the issues you care about.
Right now, there are more butches posting than there have been in the past. One butch member posted all alone for quite some time until other members saw that and saw the response and started posting themselves. All it takes is one person to get the ball rolling.
I’m not sure if you know the size range of a lot of the posters there - I know that I am over 300 pounds, that theoryofgravity is comparable in size, as is opn and rainbowaster who are all three active posters. It isn’t perfect because we DO represent the upper size range of active posters but, other than give lip service to wishing more larger people would post, there is very little we can do until larger people start posting more.
I absolutely love your strength. One of my goals is to get women to understand that no one determines your value in life except you. Acceptance or unacceptance (I just blogged on that yesterday–wont apologize to the masses for offense!) is in your hands. Cliche but true…I have to look at me in the mirror. If like what I see…everyone else can keep their judgments to themselves!
Over my desk there is a sign…it says, “I am strong, I am beautiful, and I am intelligent. I have what I need to succeed.” It does not, however, say I am a size 6!
Diana
http://www.sexywhispers.wordpress.com
[...] Filed under: Weight, Life — contadine @ 12:00 pm Natalie at Not a Pretty Girl has posted a great response to the convos going on yesterday about fat acceptance and [...]
Kate, your monster comment did indeed get caught in the spam trap, but I’ve rescued it.
It is a really hard thing to negotiate, the idea that I am really, really not happy at the size–and I’ve tried to be happy in this place, but it’s just not happening and now there’s stuff going on–and still feel like I’m welcome in the fat acceptance movement. I am absolutely coming at this from a HAES perspective, because a dieting perspective would make me insane. Whether I lose weight or not, I’ll still be taking positive steps to improve my health, which is the most important thing. And I’m hoping that improving my health will help me to feel happier about this body.
I feel that there’s a militant strain within fat activisim/acceptance which really rubs me the wrong way. I hate the idea that there doesn’t seem to be room for dissent and that there’s a certain level of ideological purity required in order to be considered part of the movement. I’ve never been ideologically pure, I’ve just been keeping my mouth shut.
I so understand your frustration, Natalie. I feel that a “healthist” bent is pronounced in many spaces that are meant to be FA. I piss and moan about this on BFB a lot (I’m Euterpist there). I don’t feel that replacing fat bigotry with health bigotry is an improvement, just a change.
I think there are militant strains within any movement - no ideology is as monolithic as it would be simpler to assume.
Thanks for posting this, Natalie. I am in a similar, being very heavy, and how, even after practising HAES for many years, I’m in a position where I have poor quality of life and the only way out is through the weight loss swamp. I wish it wasn’t so, I hate the idea, but I’m stuck.
I don’t expect weight loss talk in fat acceptance communities. But why, when I continue to do all these fat accepting, fat activist things, why should I be unable to use the label “fat activist” if I am quietly attempting to lose weight, even if I don’t manage it? I do fat activism, so why the hell can’t I have the label fat activist?
I know “acceptance” is conflicting with “change”, I understand that. I understand why fat accepters aren’t easy with the idea of someone who is a fat activist dieting. I understand that. What I don’t understand, is why I have to be in pain and naked in order to be a fat activist? (pain and nakedness being what happens if I don’t manage to lose weight)
Maybe a better label is “weight-neutral activist”. I am working actively towards a weight-neutral society. I don’t see why that label should be a problem, whatever my weight is or isn’t doing, intentionally or otherwise.
Thank you for posting this. I struggle a lot with feeling like I’m on the outside of size acceptance space because of my size. And it’s hard to say that, yes, wanting to lose weight is inherently bad and unhealthy when, at over 500 pounds, my seatbelt no longer fits me and I have trouble fitting into the shower.
For me it is ultimately about my health. But having been where I am I have trouble making the blanket statement that wanting your body a little smaller is wrong.
I totally understand where you coming from. I am over 300 lbs. but I don’t feel excluded over at Fatshionista, in fact we’re having our first SF Bay Area meet up tomorrow and I am soooo stoked. I guess I’m more excited about the ladies getting together than I am about the clothes shopping, but it’ll be fun anyway. I am totally anti-diet, but I don’t judge. If you’re not happy (for whatever reason) than do something…that’s my philosophy! I becae a vegatarian two years ago for many reasons, but mostly to feel better. It was difficult due to the social presures/judgements, not because of the lifestyle change I made. Keep putting your opinions out there…obviously you’ve hit home with a lot of people. Thanks for that!
Heidi, I’ve been dropping into your livejournal on and off for months (since finding you on Fatshionista, I think), and I love getting your perspective. I remember commenting there a long time ago (I’m Lucysol) that you’re the first person who ever made me think WLS is not always, in every situation, a bad idea.
And I agree you’re absolutely underrepresented in what gets talked about at my blog. Which sucks. (If you’d ever be interested in guest posting, please e-mail me!) I want you to feel comfortable and welcome in any fat movement I’m a part of — but I’m also speaking to a lot of thinner women who DON’T have any health problems but still feel psychologically compelled to diet. I don’t want to leave you at the margins by focusing on them, but I also don’t want to be wishy washy about my basic philosophical stance on dieting, even if there might be some exceptions.
The only thing I can say is, I don’t think “wanting your body a little smaller is wrong.” (Fillyjonk wrote a terrific post at my place today about how HARD it is to stop wanting to diet, even if you don’t have any health or mobility problems. I think she’s bang on.) But I think trying to lose weight, in the vast majority of cases, causes more harm than good. And since I’m talking to a whole lot of different people, sometimes I have to neglect the exceptions in service of making a strong point about the rule.
I’m really sorry if that makes you feel left out, because I don’t want to do that at all. I don’t want to do it to anyone, but especially not to you, since I really love your writing and your perspective.
First, just piping up as another ass-kicking, unapologetic 300+ 26/28 fat girl!
Second, I just want to say that wanting my body a little smaller, and taking action to try to make it so, isn’t necessarily “wrong.” It’s just not fat accepting. I don’t see how it could be fat accepting.
I just commented over at The Rotund (I’m bellyrolls) with my own very specific situation. My reason for weight loss is about as frivolous as a practical reason can get. I want to stay within the sizing range of my favourite shops. If I get any bigger, I won’t be. And since I know my weight is likely to fluctuate, I’d like to maintain a weight that puts me one size below the size I currently wear.
Now everything I just said got privilege out the wazoo, and it’s very, very different to your situation. I only weigh 240 to 245. I wanna weigh 225 to 230. It’s not going to make major changes to my life, it’s just going to remove a slight potential difficulty. It’s not much of a big deal to me. I won’t be happier in ways that really, truly matter. It’s just a relatively insignificant goal of mine, pretty much up there with tidying the spare room and actually remembering to write appointments in my diary.
I personally think it’s great, fantastic and wonderful that I can be this chill about losing weight. This is something I totally owe to the fat acceptance community. Lose a stone? Yeah, think I’d like to do that. It would suck to have to start buying Evans jeans, cause they never fit me right and I’m terrible at altering things. *shrug* No big if I don’t get round to it, though.
It is NOT about a certain level of fat being unacceptable. It is not about the shame associated with not being able to shop in certain stores. Don’t believe me? I already can’t usually buy M&S tops. Too much belleh and too much boob. I only care about the jeans, because they happen to fit me better and last longer than any others I’ve ever tried.
(Sorry for the tl:dr about my shopping preferences. I swear I’m coming to a point.)
What I really want to say is that wanting to lose weight with a specific, practical, well-thought-out aim in mind is *not* antithetical to fat activism. If weight loss is because a person will love themselves more, be less ashamed, anticipates romance/happiness/society’s acceptance/bluebirds and rainbows, well, no cigar. If it’s because you want something practical and real that you will UNDENIABLY get from weight loss, from important things like being able to do up a seatbelt to silly little things like buying from a certain clothing range, then that does not say a damn thing about whether you find fat acceptable and to what degree.
Hey Natalie.
“…shame on you, Paul for calling Hanne a “situationâ€â€“she’s a person, not a situation.”
Fair point, and I apologize. I didn’t mean it to be dehumanizing in any way shape or form but can definitely see how it can be interpreted that way. Again, I’m sorry.
“I hate the idea that there doesn’t seem to be room for dissent and that there’s a certain level of ideological purity required in order to be considered part of the movement.”
I think this is what the teeth-gnashing is focusing on, at least thus far. There are people who will be pretty radical with the idea and want to enforce a very strict policy (ie, “Anytime you lose a pound for any reason you are NOT PRO FAT”) and, honestly, we need those people. However, it is not in our best interests to have *only* said folks setting our agendas. Because as you demonstrate right here, there is an enormous grey area.
That grey area includes people who might/might not lose weight by doing “healthy” things, hardcore dieters, casual dieters, people who hate their bodies, “unhealthy” people, people who feel fat, and so on.
In essence this is the Problem That Doesn’t Go Away for the movement.
Paul, I agree that the movement is helped by the militant folks, but us less militant folks are useful, too–if only for articulating the gray areas. And this is absolutely the Problem that Doesn’t Go Away and I’m not sure what to do about it–it’s been there for a really long time.
All I know is this: I’m going to start taking better care of my body because I want to be a cranky old person with my wonderful husband (who is going to make a delightfully cranky old man) and in the process of doing so, I may very well lose some weight. And if I do, I’m not going to apologize for it. And no one had better expect me to.
(Gross generalities ahead.)
I feel like that there’s an expectation that if you consider yourself a member of the fat acceptance community that if you do lose weight that you’d better have an illness that explains the weight loss or it needs to be completely accidental and that you’d better be really, really, really sorry about it.
Interestingly enough, there doesn’t seem to be any sort of expectation around /gaining/ weight.
And that raises an entirely new question in my mind: are dieting and feederism two different aspects of the same issue? And is that something worth exploring by the community as a whole?
Paul, if you’re going to apologize to anyone, it seems like it would make sense to apologize to Hanne, who undoubtedly saw your comment too.
Fantastic post! I am one of these people who is skirting the line of 300lb and I would like to lose a bit of weight. Not a lot, a bit. I dont want to be a skinny mini. I just want to feel comfortable physically. I would be happy to be 250lb. So I totally hear you and I applaud your post.
(I also have a fat blog at http://www.fatlotofgood.wordpress.com if you want to have a look sometime).
Thank you so much for addressing these issues. You’ve nailed my discomfort with the fat acceptance movement right on the head. I’ve been dieting for the last year because I was in the same place you mentioned, over 300 pounds with my size truly affecting my health. I was still too damn fat to be fashionably, fabulously, acceptably fat but a sellout because of the diet. Excellent entry.
Yes,yes, yes. I just said much the same thing in the comments at kate harding’s Shapely Prose.
Thank you so much for being public in saying this.
Great post! I agree with a lot of what you say, and I’m planning a post on it.
I’ve never really felt comfortable with the whole Fat Acceptance Movement, capitalized. Particularly because I don’t really understand what the “acceptance” part is supposed to refer to. I’d have thought it would be the acceptance of fat people by society, i.e., the right to be accommodated, to be treated with dignity, to not be discriminated against, etc.
The idea that any particular individual must accept their own fat lest they betray the movement is much, much more problematic to me. I mean, do you only get to be part of the Movement if you reach Level 5 of Embracing Your Own Fat, even if you work to expose and counter fat hatred in the law, in the media, in medicine, in your daily life?
It also brings up serious issues of bodily autonomy for me.
I understand, on one level, the anti-”diet” stand (thought “dieting” seems very loosely defined), because one of the arguments in favor of discrimination is that you can change at any time, and you chose to do this. Seems to me that discrimination based on religion or political party is also a problem, and yet those are things one chooses as well. Nobody who fights for freedom of religion or freedom of expression argues that people who fight on their side must never, ever change their minds.
Similarly, I can advocate for the right to an abortion even if I don’t think I’d ever personally have one. Men who will never have to choose can advocate the right to choose.
Zuzu wrote: “The idea that any particular individual must accept their own fat lest they betray the movement is much, much more problematic to me. I mean, do you only get to be part of the Movement if you reach Level 5 of Embracing Your Own Fat, even if you work to expose and counter fat hatred in the law, in the media, in medicine, in your daily life?”
Oh man, that’s what I’ve been trying to say - and failing miserably at - in kate harding’s blog all day!!!
I blame the heat.
AnonymousAndCo, formerly the, uh, oh, the only Anoymous, above.
The whole idea of Fat Acceptance seems a little weird to me, and obviously this is because I’m coming from a totally outside perspective. I like what Hanne says a whole lot better: “I want to live in a world where everyone is treated humanely and respectfully just because they’re human. The size or shape or weight of a person’s body is just one of the things that comes under the heading of Bad Reasons To Treat Someone Poorly.” It’s unfortunate that I can’t figure out how to log in and comment over there; I wanted to point out how close this is to something Molly Ivins once wrote about political labels (the idea that if you’re pro-Civil Rights and anti-Vietnam War you’re expected to toe a party line on so many other issues - the issues have changed butnot the labeling problem).
I’m much more used to being around people who have purposefully changed their bodies in all kinds of ways, generally not because of how they want to look but because of what they want to be able to do. If you decided you wanted to be able to squat 100 pounds or run 2 miles and you did the work necessary to get there, your body would change along the way(exactly what change would depend on your goal - some weight lifters go through a lot of effort to *gain* weight); it seems strange to think that some people would insist that your ideology must change with it.
“I’m not going to apologize and I’m not going to pretend it was an accident–but I’m also not going to count calories and obsessively weigh myself because that way lies madness”
Oh sister - tell it on the mountain!
It’s somehow finding a balance that is so hard to reach and then maintain.
I don’t actually know about the movements spoken of here - or any of the blogs - but. I live with this conflict on an internal level.
Sorry to hear that you are feeling marginalized - that is a dreadful feeling.
Whoops- hit the wrong key.
Meant to also thank you for writing such a personal and courageous post.
[...] (*If you are unaware of what I speak, check out recent posts from Hanne Blank, The Rotund, the three writers at Shapely Prose, and Not a Pretty Girl.) [...]
I came to this same conclusion years ago.
By the way I am in the extreme super-sized category. I lost some weight years ago but weight has been same for years.
You will note, that I also realized that the “fat positive” stuff failed when the CPAP machine, lack of mobility and more began.
http://victoria682.tripod.com/thelargestofall/id9.html
I no longer have any connection to the size acceptance movement except one last site I read BIG FAT BLOG: that is how I found this link.
[...] Who Sets the Size Acceptance Agenda? Posted September 8, 2007 The context of this post is layered in this, this, this, this, and especially this. [...]
I am a size 14 and I’ve sometimes been shunned for not being “fat enough”. When I talked about my difficulties, it was like my problems didn’t count until I weighed more.
The fat acceptance movement seems like a hipocracy in itself. I find so many of these women being so overdefensive about their fat. They don’t even accept it, they want -you- to accept it. It’s a charade.